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  #1  
Old 09-10-2011, 08:38 PM
Eli Jensen's Avatar
Eli Jensen Eli Jensen is offline
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Stab. Wood from Ebay

This is my first time going with stabilized wood and so I don't really know what I'm looking at. Is stabilized wood, say something like cedar, supposed to be heavy, or about the same weight as before? I got some peruvian walnut and I don't know about [I]peruvian[I] but it almost feels lighter than some unstabilized stuff I have. I don't want to use it if its no good but I don't know anything about the stuff.

Also is it normal that my scroll saw can't cut it worth crap? Not a problem cause my coping saw works, just curious.

I bought it on ebay from Big Mikey: http://myworld.ebay.com/bigmikeyc1/?_trksid=p4340.l2559

Anyone have experience with his product?

Thanks in advance
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  #2  
Old 09-10-2011, 09:22 PM
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cnccutter cnccutter is offline
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Good evening Eli.

you'll get a few different views on the "stabilized" is. I went to Mikes sight and if you scroll down he tells you his process is done under pressure... that's good. it drives or compresses all the air out of the pockets in the wood. if the pressure is high enough... most aren't, the moisture will be driven out because it changes to a gas and comes out with the air. really good stabilized wood will not only go through a pressure cycle, but vacuum too.

he also states that he doesn't use a plastic product. without knowing what he uses its a little hard to guess, but I feel that's bad. the whole idea is you want to replace everything but the wood fiber with a substance that is stable under a lot of conditions. I like acrylic or even better Aluminite. what ever you use has to bond to the fibers and be stable under a lot of conditions.

you might send him a email and just ask what he uses. lots of guys just used something simple like Minawax wood hardener.


there will be a wide variety of ideas about this and I do not think you will get a consensus.

Erik
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  #3  
Old 09-11-2011, 07:03 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Without really knowing I suspect something like Nelsonite. It is supposed to stabilize wood without the plastic effect, but honestly, I've used it and I can't say what it does. It sure doesn't retard warping. I had a peice of snake wood that I make scales from and they warped quickly and badly after being applied to the handle of my knifed.

I have gotten a lot, if not most, of my wood from dealers on Ebay but I would never get stabilized wood there. Go to one of the established knife making suppliers to buy stabilized wood or send the wood to someplace like K&G to have it done.

Doug


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Old 09-11-2011, 09:07 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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All of the above is true enough but there is a commonly accepted commercial definition for stabilized wood. There are only two outfits that I know of that use high pressure and vacuum acrylic stabilizing and they are WSSI and K&G Finishing. All stabilized wood that you can buy from any of the major knife supply houses comes from one of these guys and this is what we mean by 'stabilized' unless otherwise specified. Any light weight wood that has been stabilized by this process will be noticeably heavier and harder after the process. Some of the wood sold on eBay is stabilized this way but most is not. One clue is that if it cost less than $25 per block it probably isn't stabilized this way.

You can send your own wood to either of these outfits and save some money that way but most of the home grown processes are pretty close to at least a partial waste of time. You owe it to yourself to try some wood from these commercial outfits to see the difference....


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Old 09-11-2011, 10:01 AM
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Eli Jensen Eli Jensen is offline
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"We use a commercial mixture of mineral spirits with a concentration and percentage of Naphtha as well as other resins and oils.
This is not an acrylic (plastic) heat process that adds weight to wood, but a process that leaves wood with a natural look.
We have been stabilizing wood for 25 years and associated with wood for fifty years.
Each listing of stabilized wood includes a statement on stabilization.
Due to heavy competition and the fact that our process does not add any weight to the product,
that is all the information we will provide.
Check our feedback for any stabilization problems.
Thanks,
Mike"
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  #6  
Old 09-11-2011, 10:45 AM
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Eli Jensen Eli Jensen is offline
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Well I've sort of put myself in a pickle on this one. I definitely don't want to use the cedar or peruvian walnut, its just too soft and while moisture was my concern before, durability would be with these woods (If I held this wood with my eyes closed, I could be convinced its basswood). I think I'll use the cocobolo anyways, its usually a good wood without stabilization and as long as his process doesn't make the wood worse I think it will work. I also bought brazilian cherry, teak, and olive and I think these might also work. Not sure about some ash I got as well, could go either way.

As long as its not worse than unstabilized wood I think it will work out, I hope. I got them for a four knife set someone ordered and another knife as well. I don't want to give them awesome blades with sub-par handles. Big Mike has great feedback so at the very least I can give it a go?

There isn't the budget to get anything else, but I've got some good unstabilized stuff like paduak, bubinga, and some kind of ebony that is nut brown but darkens to a pale black over time.

I also got some marblewood, which I am not familiar with. It seems pretty hard but is a transverse cut so definitely need to make sure the "stabilization" is decent before putting it on anything I care about.
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:25 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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For your general information, some woods like cocobolo are not compatible with the stabilization process (when I refer to stabilizing without further qualifying I always mean the acrylic commercial process). This will be generally true of most tropical woods as the oils in the wood interfere with the process. Other poor candidates are dense woods like ironwood and some ebony. That said, I still send my ironwood and even oosik (which is hyper dense) to K&G because I feel that even a slight benefit is worth the effort. Most of the time it works far better than I expected it to.

Wood stabilized by this process will gain a lot of weight if it was a light porous wood, less if it were more dense. Most small holes and crevasses will be filled and the strength of burl woods will be much improved. Warping is all but eliminated in many cases (although the process itself can warp a block). Stabilized wood will not absorb appreciable amounts of water and cannot be effectively stained (after the process). Many other stabilizing processes like the one you mentioned may keep the wood from rotting but it will still hold water and some can be stained and small holes are usually not filled. Some, like MinWax, may add some strength but don't go all the way through the wood. Nelsonite is said to impart an objectionable odor to the wood...


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Old 09-11-2011, 12:08 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Another thing that I noticed about Nelsonite is that it will not add hardness to the wood even as well as soaking the wood in boiled linseed oil, which is marginal. That means that it is useless to harden soft or spalted woods. A couple of years ago there seemed to be a great deal of interest in "home" stabilization. I think in the end it was found that trough a big investment of time, equiptment, and materials one could produce, at best, a slightly inferior product at much higher cost than what was available commercially. I think it was driven largly by those who wanted to do as much as possible themselves.

Personally I've gravitated towards woods that do not need and may not even accept stabilzation. If stabilzation is necessary of desired then it is much more ecconomical to ship it off to commercial outfits that have the equiptment to do it right.

Doug


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Old 09-14-2011, 09:33 AM
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Horsewright Horsewright is offline
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I've made several kitchen knives for the wife with zircote, a tropical hardwood with the oils mentioned above. While I've got her not tossing them into the sink full of soapy water, or the dishwasher, I can't get her not to wash em and leave on a dish towel on the counter to dry. This means they are in contact with this damp to pretty wet towel for some time. After a couple of years of this treatment I've been surprised at how well the zircote has withstood this, by my definition, abuse. Tight to the tangs and no noticable movement. I too gravitate to the woods that work with out additional help.


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  #10  
Old 07-08-2012, 05:39 PM
Jon Kennedy Jon Kennedy is offline
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stabilized wood

Eli, I hate to say it but dont waste you're time the the minwax wood hardner! I have stabilized wood for quite some time and have found out that with the proper stabilizing the wood you are stabilizing will gain twice the weight after stabilization and then some, its not a matter of just soaking the blanks in stabilizing resin, you will need a draw vacume on it till all air is removed them cure it in a cure oven, some woods take resin better than others, like Ray said some woods dont like resin at all, make sure that the wood you are stabilizing is down to 7% to 2% if its to wet the resin will react to it and plug up wood pours and you will not get the proper penitration, currently im stabilizing peper mill blaks that are 3"x3"x18" long with no presure and i have no problem getting resin in to those blanks, you need to pull as much vacume as possable, I'm pulling 28.5" and it works fine with the ZK-TR 90 acrylic heat cure resin, the ZK-TR 90 resin is a clear resin and it gets very hard after cureing, water clean up and safe to work with, if you are looking for someone to stabilize wood for you Get a hold of Troy kreager on this site and he can do it for you at a rate you can afford! he has been stabilizing for a long time and he does it for guys all over the country and he's good at it!! if you are thinking of stabilizing and you are going to make a pressure vessel make sure it will withstand 3000 psi of pressure and be very carefull doing it, you are working with a time bomb!! I would advise you not to even mess with a pressure chamber. what kind of wood are you trying to stabilize?

Jon

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Last edited by Jon Kennedy; 07-08-2012 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:29 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Another thing about MinWax Wood Hardener that I found out. It's not water proof. It's designed to harden softened wood that will be painted over later. Sounds like a substitute for doing it the right way and that's take out the semi rotted wood and replacing it.

Doug


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Old 07-09-2012, 06:17 PM
metal99 metal99 is offline
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Well seeing as how there selling stabilized ironwood kinda makes me wonder... I have used WSSI stabilized wood and honestly like it a lot. It also adds extra value to your finished product if it's been stabilized by a well known company.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:48 PM
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Has anyone had luck with wood lab? Their prices are better than k&g but i dont want to get a lower quality job for the few bucks it will spare me.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:54 PM
metal99 metal99 is offline
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By what they say their method is I don't think it would be as good as k&g or WSSI because they claim not to have any plastics in the wood.
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  #15  
Old 07-09-2012, 09:02 PM
Jon Kennedy Jon Kennedy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal99 View Post
By what they say their method is I don't think it would be as good as k&g or WSSI because they claim not to have any plastics in the wood.
whos resin dont have plasics in them?
Jon
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